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DEBORAH TOUCHETTE, APRIL 12, 1978
ERIC CLARKE
APPT. W/SHARON AMOS
DEBORAH TOUCHETTE
-ERIC SAID THE TAX EXEMPTION IS ONLY GOOD IF PARTY DONATES FOR THREE YEARS
-ON MEDICAL RELEASE, SHOULD HAVE WITINESS SIGN ALONG WITH THE PERSONS BEING TREATED. EG. IF HUSBAND GETS TREATMENT, HE AND HIS WIFE SHOULD SIGN. “IT’S ALWAYS USEFUL TO HAVE A MEMBER OF THE FAMILY SIGN”.
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[Handwriting: “Sharon Amos”]
John Clarke 12/4/78
-regarding the Stoen case and how delay could be a benefit to Stoen (we told him what Dick McCoy said), he said that it is not a govt to govt matter, US can’t interfere and the US said so already (in the letters we showed him)
-we gave him the picture he had asked for of Rosylyn [Rosalynn] Carter and JJ (he said he’d send it to [Forbes] Burnham)
-he said that in terms of the orders, the legal ruling could only be that Jim bring the child on a habeous corpus ruling for the court to decide on the custody/ I asked if that would be done and he said such a ruling wouldn’t be made
-regarding immigration and the ruling of the Immigration dept, he said that the person taking the child out has to be the legal guardian of the child
-immigration has been instructed not to let the child go out with anyone/ I asked if that was to favor Stoen as Stoen knows he could never get the child (over all our dead bodies) and John said that the child’s mother is the only legal guardian fo the child. But in response to whether she could take the child out, he said “no not unless the court decided that and they will not do so
-he said that immigration has been made aware of the controvercy regarding this child
-the child is not to leave the country with JJ or anyone/ have to show legal authority to take the child out
-I asked who it was that authorized this and he wouldn’t say, said he couldn’t reveal his sources that it was confidential
-He said the Stoen eventually will let you have the child/ time will do it
-he said that JJ is holding the child unlawfully/ that JJ hasn’t made application to have the child (we explained that JJ had a paper signed by Grace and he said that didn’t make any difference)
-he said a woman can’t give away her child
-we taled [talked] about J’s right to keep the child/ the circumstances with a transvestite and abandonment and he said J has probably a moral right
MRS. BURNHAM
-told him positive things and then as was instructed, told him about the cancellation of her meeting with JJ
-he said that he she had said to him that she promised she would visit Jonestown
DEVALUATION
-don’t see it done here, Guyana has to keep its currancy up/ cut your own neck if you devaluate with all the “stupid things” happening here
-can’t see it done here
BACK TO STOEN CASE
-he said “this lady gave her child to keep” but no legal document/ deep understanding can be there but the law doesn’t sanction such a thing unless there is adoption and people can change their minds
-mother can come at any time but no-one will give her the child however
-no court will listen to her
-I don’t think they’ll try to get the child/ they tried and had utter frustration
-when I said they may do a propaganda campaign in the US, he said that propaganda in the US won’t affect us
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SHIRLEY FIELD-RIDLEY
-I asked if he ad had met with her (when he talked to her on the phone he had said he’d meet with her), he said no, I said something about what she said about foreign enemies and what did he think about that
-he said that Shirley was positive about our work but she said that there are “awful things in the US going on and the govt. has to be careful because of things said in the US. Govt. doesn’t needlessly go into things. Govt. has to appear to be impartial. Can’t champeop [champion] your cause. Has to keep an open mind. But she knows you are doing good work.”
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DEBORAH TOUCHETTE
APRIL 12, 1978
J.T. CLARKE
APPT. W/SHARON AMOS
DEBORAH TOUCHETTE
-We gave him picture of Jim w/Rosalind Carter, he said “good, I’ll give it to the Prime Minister.”
-Sharon told him Dick McCoy’s view of Stoen case if delays are evident… and asked if the immigration law was made in favor of Stoen?
-J.T.-“You people worry too much, the orders made about Jon were for the safty of Jim Jones because it would be in Tim’s favor if Jim would take the child out of the country, then he could start proceedings in the United States.
-J.T. said things are not so good now, Burnham won’t listen to anyone, he’s going to the USSR & the people of Guyana don’t want communism. In his speech, he said he was going to cement relations with these countries. Burnham will chose his own council, he doesn’t want to be dictated to by anyone.
-asked if he had herd [heard] anything on the Stoen case..
-J.T. said it is the feeling taht [Judge Aubrey] Bishop has been given the word by high govt. officials to let the arrest order remain dormant. Bishop didn’t say that, but it is the feeling that is given.
-I asked about the IMF loan… He said “Yes, it could happen, but he didn’t think it would, it’s not in the interest of Guyana,”
-He said most people think they should accept from the U.S., England or Canada.. old friends. All the USSR will help you do is promote communism
APRIL 11,1978
J.T. CLARKE
APPT. W/SHARON AMOS
DEBORAH TOUCHETTE
-Sharon told of Stoen contacting Senators, would it effect us here?
-J.T.-He can make as many contact as he likes, they have no control over a govwrnment matter. The U.S. cannot interfer, the U.S. said they only wanted to protect the interest of an American citizen.
-Sharon told him that didn’g include behind the scene
“No behind the scens couldn’t effect us at all,
-Bishop should bring the child on the Habes Corpus to the court if such a ruleing is made, they are not likely todo this, never- no one can take the child unless he is the legal guardian, no legal rule has been made that the child could not be taken, the Immigration has been instructed no to let anyone take the child unless its his legal guardian. Only his mother would be able to take the child.
-Its the law of the nation no one can take another persons child
-The Immigration has been made aware of the contraversy of the child
-Jim has no legal papers, no written form. Grace needs nothing
-a woman cant give away her child, the child has to be legaly adopted.
-J.T. said he feels under the circumstances Jim is right, morally right.
-devaluation- Yes, it’s possible, that wouldn’t happen though, I don’t see that happening in Guyana, it’s not to our benifit. Guyana has got it bad enough now.
-Propaganda in the United States doesn’t effect us here, Shirley has nothing against your group (Shirley Field-Ridley) she intedn [interested] to see J/Town sometime.
-Govt. feels these things are lies, these things that are being said in the U.S. but govt. has to be careful. A govt. cant champain your cause like that, they have to keep an open mind…
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Sharon Amos
MINGO 12/4/78 (Mike, Sharon, Debbie)
-regarding Larry Schacht’s situation (when Dr. Chin had told Tim it couldn’t be arranged now) – he said he would appraise Dr. [Ptolemy] Reid of this/ we laid it all out, the humanitarian problems, the problem just recently of Hope not properly taking care of a burn victim and this man coming to us with infection in his body
-I said I couldn’t understand why the govt. was making an issue out of it because with all the problems right now and the charges that the opposition was making that Amerindians were not being taken care of, it seemed like they were cutting off their noses to spite their face
-he said that (after listening quietly) he couldn’t respond, said that they reason they had not okeyed it ([Hamilton] Green etc) was they didn’t want to create a precedent
-we said we could not accept it (we showed him by the way the letters from Greenfield and I went thru several cases of Amerindians (this was dictated over the radio) and what had been done for then) he responded after we said it was totally unacceptable that “what are you going to do about it”
-we said “what are you advising for us to do”
-we said we could not tolerate this on humanitarian grounds. we would not compromise
-he said that it was the law/ we said he should try to change the law because we understand it could go to Cabinet but he said Min. Green would have to bring it to Cabinet
-if Min. Green is the one that didn’t OK it, we should say “we formally protest this action”
-we asked if [Vibert] Mingo would speak to Reid and he said for us to put it in writing and he will
RE INVESTIGATION AND OUR WORKING FOR THE PNC
-we said that we are told we are useful to the party, we are asked to mobilize for the party and told we are the only ones often that show up and yet why are they investigating us
-he said if we feel that way, we should stop working for the party/ I said we don’t want to stop working for the party, we just want to be treated fairly
-he said “well you wouldn’t refer to it (working for the party) unless ——–(he didn’t finish the sentence)
-he said that (in regard to the morality question in medicine) that legality is based on morality and we pooh-poohed that
-we said that we knew that if he gets a call on his red phone, he bends the so rules to suit the individual case and he even told us he had to swallow many times because he had to compromise and here in this instance it was based on morality and that Larry got no salary and worked long hours so they certainly shouldn’t say it was special priveleges
-he said “well I guess you know so much about me”
-we said we had just hoped he understand the morality of it and that he support us (or at least understand us)
-he said “It’s not that I am not convinced it’s right” – it’s just a problem of the precedence
-he said “integrity only goes so far. You have approached all those who have the authority to help you and you haven’t succeeded so what are you going to do”
-his only suggestion is that we get a protest to the Min. of health and to Dr. Reid
-he said what you are doing is an excellent thing, humanitarian
INVESTIGATION:
-said he saw Sandifor (who’s checking into us) and Sandifor doesn’t know anything
about it
-he said his CID (MINGO’s) aren’t investigating you but they can prob into who is
CUSTOMS:
-he said that he wondered if his call to Hope had helped and Mike said that we had been told when we went in that the letter was there (Hope’s desk) but still nothing was done about it. Because Hope had said he’d do something about it, Mingo said “it’s frustrating tome too. It inflames my patience and then I get inflamed
(OVER)
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with you”
-kwhen we went over that part of the penalization of us as a cooperative when we were told that if you bring in private possessions you don’t have to pay (he said “it doesn’t make sense to penalize people in a cooperative republic”
FINANCE
-Reid is taking over temporarily for Hope
(on the following, he said “put donw your pens and we can talk”
MINISTER GREEN AND HIS SUPPORT FOR US IN THE EXECUTIVE MEETING (REPORTED BEFORE)
-he sad Green did support you but he was also the one who said he wouldn’t compromise
on the medical so Mingo said Green Might be being diplomatic
-he said Green is very popular and will not listen to certain people, not even Reid
-Green was the General Secretary of the Party but Reid and others didn’t like how
he was handling the job, Rand didn’t feel he had enough clout so he was removed
and Reid was put in his place
-since then they haven’t gotten along
-only the PM could tell Green what to do
-Creen is related to the PM and they get along very well
REGARDING THOSE WHO LIKE US
-he said again that some like us and some don’t / wouldn’t say who did or didn’t except said PM and Reid and he liked us
-when I asked about Shirley Field-Ridley, he said “I don’t think she is with you, that’s why I wanted her to see you” as I don’t think she understands (when Tim asked if she was racist against white Americans, he said he didn’t know about that)
-he said that Jack is closer to the PM however than Green or Hoyte and when I asked what Jack thought of us, he said “He understands you”
REGARDING JOHN AND THAT WE’D RATHER DIE THAN HAVE HIM EVER TAKEN, ALL OF US, he said he understood
-I said JJ wants him to know we’d do the same for him/ anytime anything happened or he needed help for the rest of his life he and his family would be assured of our help/ he said “I appreciate the loyalty of you people.” He said that on a couple of occasions we had told him of our pledge of loyalty to him and he said he appreciated that (he sounded sincere at this point) – with all that’s going on I think he’s insecure about his future)
-we said it wouldhave to be committment in this concern we have to John, because we’ve all seen such a demonstration from JJ of character and we are not salaried, we all just concerned about the principle
HOPE
-Mingo talked to Hope recently/ Hope went to Mathews Ridge for a week on leave/ Mingo said he himself worked mostly thru his leave
-but he asked HOpe if Hope had come to visit Jonestown and Hope said he wouldn’t see Jonestown as we are not a “social” institution (I asked what he meant by a “social” institution and he meant like social welfare, charity)
-I told Mingo that I thought it was unfortuante he himself hadn’t seen Joneston as he was in a position to dfend us and yet he didn’t actually know first hand what we are doing
-he agreed it was bad he hadn’t been there and said he would tell us next week, first thing when he could come to Jonestown
-Thomas said he had heard that Hope wanted to get out of the country, he said real quick that wasn’t true (too quickly I thought as if he had heard the charge before)
-he said that tho it isn’t true, Hope doesn’t have any principles at all/ not even capitalistic principles and that Hope is mostly a civil servant. But Mingo said
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MINGO 12/4/78 cont.
Hope might not stick it out in Guyana with all the problems we have there, as he said that Hope doesn’t have the guts
RE JONESTOWN
-Mingo said one of our problems might be that people are jeslous/ I asked why and he said that perhaps we are doing what they would like to do