[Editor’s note: The minor typographical errors in this document have been corrected.]
SUMMARY OF “VIOLATIONS”: RESPONSES
1. “Decision to Die” Statement.
Written by Pam Moten in the United States at that time, not written or caused to be written by JJ. It was an expression of frustration and reflects what in fact, the frustration and desperation that the community feels at continued harassment. In any event, it is not a threat nor was it ever intended as such.
2. Guards – There are no guards around Jonestown at all. There are no fences at all, let alone barbed wire fences. There is no closed-circuit television monitoring the residents. Moreover, it would be physically impossible to station guards or fences around Jonestown, as this is a very large community in the middle of the jungle – even if we so desire, which we do not.
3. PASSPORTS: We have centralized passports, kept in organized fashion, alphabetically in a central office. This is done to prevent loss, and this system is known to both the Guyana police officials and the US Consulate. This system is not done to prevent people from leaving the country as one does not need a passport to travel out of Guyana; all one needs is to stop by the US Consulate office, pick up travel papers and go – a passport is not necessary. The Guyana Police Department is aware of this system and prefers it because it makes their responsibility of checking immigration cards easier. The national government of Guyana is also aware of this system, as is the US Embassy (who in fact suggested it might be the most efficient way to handle such a number of passports.)
4. MONEY: We are a Communist collective, and no money is used in Jonestown. We pool all our funds. Because we are an entirely egalitarian society, one of the implications that there isn’t anybody in this place that has greater buying power or access to material goods than anybody else. (All services, entertainment, necessities are provided free of charge. Moreover, there is no place in the interior of Guyana to bank or cash checks. Each person endorses his or her own checks which are deposited in an external US dollar account, held in the name of the organization. The proceeds are used for the benefit of the entire collective, without respect to the origination of the funds.
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5. TELEPHONE CALLS: There is no phone on the project. The nearest phone is seven miles away and only operates from the interior to the capital of Georgetown, when it operates at all, and when that is is anybody’s guess. Direct phone calls to relatives are not permitted from Georgetown as the cost is twelve dollars per three minutes and we cannot afford the expense. We do allow collect calls to be made, especially if the relative has shown particular interest or concern, and if the member-relative is in our Georgetown headquarters. Local phone calls are made on a routine daily basis by those in Georgetown.
Phone patches via amateur radio are regularly scheduled and permitted and they are made at a time when radio conditions permit such calls. The only limitation on phone patches are the limitations imposed by the medium itself – atmospheric conditions, the radio band etc. However, in the event that the person has a relative who has proved to be very hostile to the organization or the individual, such radio-phone contacts are discouraged [inserted words “although not forbidden”], because of potential legal problems. One of the problems is that radio-phone patches are public medium and are listened to by many people, so we feel it necessary especially when there is a potential legal problem involved, to be cautious over this medium. However, such calls have been made, but we usually have their attorney present. Another thing we are concerned about is that someone listening on the band may pick up the phone number, and later harass or bother the relative in question. This has happened in the past. In fact, Tim Stoen has called some of these relatives and told him their relatives here were being abused, etc. One example of this is Mrs. Verdella Duncan, who recently had a phone patch with her daughter – a fourteen-year-old pregnant young woman. During the course of the conversation, she mentioned she would be arriving in July to visit her daughter. A few days later she received a phone call from Timothy Stoen, warning her not to come here in July, and that he had heard she wanted her child back, which in fact was not true. This phone call indicated to us that he has contact with people who listen to our phone patches.
6. “PROHIBITION” from contact with “Outsiders”
This is patently untrue, because anyone who is not living on the project, or who is doing work outside the project, down river, in Port Kaituma, in Matthews Ridge or in Georgetown, has contact constantly with persons not members of our cooperative. Our band has traveled all over Guyana, performing, we have open houses, parties etc. in Georgetown,
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Georgetown, and attend parties, dinners etc. given by our friends in the community (both here in the NWD [North West District]) and in Georgetown.)
Probably about 50% of the time, anywhere between 5 and 10% of our cooperative’s membership are not on the Project. They are either in Georgetown or down river, in the Port etc. it is a fair estimate that about one third of the cooperative membership are not on the project in any given year at one time or another.
It is physically impossible to prevent anyone from our project from having contact with our neighbors. One can walk off the project at any time. There is a free train from the Port to Matthews Ridge on an almost daily basis. People also come into the project to visit, see the medical staff routinely.
7. CENSORSHIP OF MAIL: As a general rule, mail is not censored, however, it is read, and on occasion if it contains news which we consider would be extremely upsetting to a person who is feeble and in bad health, we might consider delaying giving it to them until the medical staff feels they could handle it. One of the reasons we do read all incoming mail is to catch in advance any potential legal problems, situations where relatives are potentially hostile or in other ways considering action against our organization for various reasons. We like to be able to catch that kind of thing in advance so we can help the person in dealing with the situation, and so we can protect our collective. It is obvious that we need to do this because of the political harassment we have received and we consider it necessary at this time to protect our collective.
Outgoing mail: People do write to their relatives and [are] encouraged to do so. The mail is screened by a committee. If a problem is noted, the person is called back, the problem explained and they can rewrite the letter. Frankly, we consider this necessary, because it is obvious that many people in the United States do not understand the workings of a Communist collective, and statements which are of themselves quite reasonable for a Marxist-Leninist would throw a bourgeois relative into a frenzy. People who live in, and accept the value system of materialistic society was simply not relate to an agricultural Communist collective in a Third World nation, and so we feel screening is necessary to avoid creating more problems for the entire community and the individual.
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Moreover, people have a tendency to be grumpy and complainers. They may write something in a letter that is a transient gripe or bitch, and a petty one at that – yet that gripe may be picked up on the other side by the media and used to substantially hurt our organization. The gripe may be completely superficial, and forgotten by the individual the next day, yet we cannot afford such things to have a substantial effect on our costs and the development of our Collective.
8. EXTORTION OF SILENCE FROM RELATIVES IN US BY THREATS TO STOP COMMUNICATION.
There is absolutely no policy to this effect, whatsoever. However, we are a community, and people here do not act in a vacuum. On occasion people have gotten pretty pissed off at the interference of relatives in their lives and have written, and talk about writing their relatives and telling them off. Greg Watkins is a good example. He wrote such a powerful letter to his mother that we asked him to rewrite it three times to tone it down, because we felt it would cause problems. Finally, we gave up. In Greg’s case, the mother wrote back a far more threatening letter that he ever wrote, saying that she would see that he paid for that nasty letter and that “there’s more than one way to skin a cat.”
9. PREVENTING CHILDREN FROM SEEING PARENTS WHEN THEY COME TO GUYANA.
There is absolutely no policy to this effect. Parents and other relatives have visited this project to see their relatives and more will be doing so in upcoming months. However, when parents and relatives have shown themselves to be hostile to this organization and collective, then we feel no obligation to have to allow them on our property. If the child still wishes to see that hostile relative, it can be arranged for them to see that relative in Georgetown – however, that particular case has never arisen. In the few cases where parents came to Guyana and did not see their children, the “child” in question was an adult, and it was the decision of the young person themselves not to see the relative. The thing that is really bothering the relatives so much is that their member-relative is more loyal to the organization then to his or her blood tie, and the “concerned relative” simply cannot accept that.
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SECTION THREE: THREAT OF DECISION TO DIE
The letter in question was written by Pamela Moten, and was not dictated by Jim Jones. Jim does give notes to secretaries, which are transmitted in code over the radio which include ideas, possible strategies, ways to respond to situations etc. However Jim does not dictate finished letters – use notes, often sketchy, and throws out ideas. How those ideas are developed is left up to those who take the notes, translate and work with them. On occasion, when time permits, he will look over a rough draft (impossible of course for long letters originating in San Francisco) and make suggestions. Even in these cases, the final product is very much a combined effort of several persons. The actual choice of phrasing etc. is left up to the writer.
It is true that the letter seeks to put US Government officials on the defensive, but we do not consider it irrelevant ideological rhetoric, and we certainly were not attempting to divert from alleged abuses of human rights because there are none to divert from.
Regarding the implication that this “decision to die” is one that Jim Jones somehow imposes the rest of the organization. The people here are people who gave up bourgeois existence, and even if it were a petty bourgeois existence, nevertheless, it was something relatively comfortable in the US, to come to live in the middle of the jungle in order to live and demonstrate the principle of Communism and further its cause. It seems fairly obvious that people who are willing to make those sorts of changes, even some who are pretty old, certainly would value their principles more than their lives. In the course of our living down here in Guyana, we, as an entire collective, have thoroughly probed and discussed, and argued back and forth, among the entire 1000 population of Jonestown, for hours and hours, what possible alternatives we have to make our presence be felt in the struggle for socialist liberation. We have tried to consider every possible alternative – what we would do if our funds were cut off by this political conspiracy, what we would do if we found ourselves no longer in a socialist Guyana, but the equivalent of a fascist Chile, with our children facing torture. By no means have any irrevocable decisions been made – It is simply the case of a group of persons committed to the advance of socialism throughout the world, trying, through the dialectic process, to come [to]
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some conclusions as to what alternatives we might have to make our presence be felt and known in some meaningful way, in the face of almost any possible eventuality. It is an ongoing process. We certainly explore the possibility that in the event we were starved out by this conspiracy, or by some other kind of disaster, it would be better to find a more humane solution than seeing our children and seniors slowly starve to death or otherwise suffer. This is by no means fixed, and is definitely not the sole alternative considered. No group anywhere has probed as democratically or as thoroughly, for as many hours, all the problems that we as a Communist collective might face, and how we might respond to in a number of eventualities.
PART FOUR: MIND PROGRAMMING ETC.
1. Causing someone to deny belief in God:
We are obviously a Marxist-Leninist organization. The adherence to Marxist-Leninism is particularly antithetical to the belief in God. Therefore those who become active in our organization and become Marxists and generally do not believe in God, because Marx’s-Leninism is an atheistic philosophy. Moreover, it is an absurdity to say that someone is guilty of “causing a denial of belief in God.” How could anyone force anyone not to believe in God?
2 Renouncing family ties: Actually, organizationally, we have always encouraged people to be kind to their relatives, particularly those who would be especially reactionary. As far as Maria [Katsaris] goes, as long as any of us have known her, she has been extremely hostile to her father. What’s happened is that organizationally, over and over, she has been asked to be kind to the man, and there came a point where that just came to an end. So the perspective Steven Katsaris reflects is the perspective of someone who has faced a child who hates him and who has lied to him for years and years, and finally decided to drop the pretense.
We do believe as an organization that they believed in, and adherence to certain principles – the principles of Marxist-Leninism, of world liberation, should take precedence over one’s family ties. This seems very logical to us, and entirely reasonable. To maintain one’s dignity, conscience, and commitment, one should put principles above blood ties. Just because a man’s your uncle you don’t love him if he’s a fascist. If families can accept that we do subscribe to this basic philosophy, even if they don’t, there’d really [be] no need to renounce family ties, and it is not required. If the relatives can
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accept the member-relative where they’re at, then that’s fine, there’s no problem, and they don’t have to subscribe to our beliefs.
There is no hard and fast rule about renunciation of family ties at all – especially for seniors, children etc. However, generally, for those who are younger and subscribe to the philosophy, they are going to maintain their family relationships in such a way as to not interfere with their philosophical belief and practice.
In the case of the Moores [John and Barbara], their daughters [Carolyn Layton and Annie Moore] long ago told them that they were Communists and if they wanted to take the risk of associating with their daughters knowing that they too might risk some difficulties from it that was perfectly fine. They have known this for a long time, and although not Communists themselves they have chosen to respect their daughters beliefs, and required welcome here, and, as you know, they enjoyed their visit very much.
3. Relatives maintained for collecting inheritances:
Not true. Not the purpose for maintaining family ties. Two inheritances collected over many years. In one case, both parents were deceased before joining PT and all of her close family are here (brother, sisters, nieces). She considers this her family, and quite natural inheritance would go to the collective. In the other case, the woman had not seen her parents nor had any but the most perfunctory communication with them for years, prior to her joining the organization, and both were simultaneously killed in an airplane crash.
Relatives maintained so as not to have them cause trouble: Of course we do, all the time. We have members who hold views that are entirely antithetical to those of their parents or relatives, who are often quite reactionary and self-centered, and who are very hostile about the choice of their children or relatives and so we constantly tell our people to placate such relatives.
DECISION MAKING (Centralized Chain of Command pg. 5)
Best way to understand this is to describe the process of decision-making in Jonestown. All major, and even many minor, policy decisions, personnel decisions, even counseling decisions are discussed and debated by the entire collective body. Significant, and sometimes very lengthy input from the collective. We have several major, large committees on the collective. For example Steering Committee, gets input from all departments on the farm and makes recommendations to the collective and most every aspect of the running of the farm and the allocation of its resources
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makes recommendations to the collective on almost every aspect of the running of the farm, from changes in personnel, to decisions on where to locate the new outhouse. We have a farm analysts board that meets regularly to discuss agricultural problems, do research, and again make recommendations to the entire collective body. This extensive input is brought to the “town forum” which meets twice weekly, and where, for several hours, the information, recommendations, etc. are presented, and debated, discussed, and greatly find the entire body of the collective, who add their individual input. Proposals are voted upon, or matters may be referred back to committee for further study etc. Jim Jones has never made a decision that runs contra to the wishes of a substantial majority of the collective. The absurdity of this charge is that I don’t think you could find a community anywhere, where more input is given by every person, regardless of age, or even senility at times. The collective operates on consensus, much more than majority rule. Jim, as spokesperson for the community will voice a decision made by the collective, but will never arbitrarily create a decision by himself. Even at times for a decision needs to be made on a minor matter, or one where Jim could readily make it by himself, he always calls and others to discuss and give input.
Decisions are made by the collective, and enforced by the same body of people – there is no “threat of punishment” as claimed. Failure to follow guidelines set down by the community is “punishable” by means of group criticism by the entire community.
Punishments: The use of hot peppers did not take place when Jim Jones was here. It was used on occasion before he got to Jonestown and without his knowledge. On one occasion it was used, the young man in question had molested a girl in the Port Kaituma area. But when Jim found out this was being done, he was adamantly opposed to it, and the collective decided it was not an appropriate punishment and it was stopped.
Sleep deprivation: Simply untrue. People get anywhere from six to ten hours of sleep a night, as they choose.
Food deprivation: never used as a punishment technique. Absolutely untrue. People eat three well-balanced meals a day, for the second helpings. People
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who are underweight, get extra snacks served. Those who are overweight are on a carefully supervised weight watchers diet. Special diets are given as prescribed by the doctor for diabetes etc. One interesting fact is that when a dentist, Mr. DeCosta, came to our project to check the children’s teeth, he was absolutely shocked at the very low number of cavities in our children and he attributed it entirely to a balanced, healthful diet. Mr. DeCosta is a Conservative, and head of the dental school in Georgetown.
Hard Labor: The most commonly used section in this community for anti-social behavior is what we call the New Brigade. The New Brigade it’s basically a highly structured, supervised group which does projects and tasks needed on the farm – a myriad variety of tasks (weeding, digging drainage ditches, building pathways, etc.). Midday, and afternoon breaks are given – ample food and water etc. In the evening the person reports to a special dormitory and spends the night there. No one works beyond one’s physical capacities. People may be sent to work on the New Brigade for a day or several days, because of severe error in judgment that could have damaged the collective. In one case, a person left insecticide around where a child could easily find it. We have found this an effective technique for correcting anti-social behavior. It is humane, far more humane then putting someone in jail, or lashing them, or other forms of brutal punishments that have been used by societies throughout the ages. All forms of leadership have been on it – there is no classist aspect to it – and it has proved reasonably successful in helping people to achieve a sense of structure and self-discipline. The program is somewhat like a drug-rehab program in that
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each time a person demonstrates responsibility in an area, he is given greater responsibility and promoted according to ability to demonstrate responsibility in carrying out even the most simple tasks. There is certainly no stigma attached to it; it has nothing to do with mind controlling techniques as it has nothing to do with one’s mental processes, but is simply a structured work program. People involved are not deprived of the use of our library facilities our movie entertainment etc. For children there is a very modified program where they do small work activities. We also isolate a child from a group activity as a means of correction. We tried to control behavior in children by using small groups and maintaining an outstanding student-teacher ratio, so that the size of children’s groups is manageable.
Traveling in groups: People do travel alone, both in the NWD and in Georgetown, if they have shown responsibility. Those who are more dependent, and less able to cope with difficult situations normally travel in groups.
Anyone who believes the cause will be killed: Obviously untrue since those making the accusation have left the organization and are very much alive. No such public threat was ever made. When Debbie Blakey left she was in Georgetown, and had been for several months, and had quite an independent role. When she wanted to leave she simply packed her bags and walked out. Nobody has been threatened with death.
There have been a number of persons who have left the organization (as well as Jonestown) and who have returned. Some who left the organization and returned hold very responsible positions within the organization.
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In some instances, persons who come here at first experience some homesickness. These are usually those who never traveled much, and so there is a period of adjustment during which they might express a wish to go back to SF or Los Angeles etc. We try to sit down, and talk with them, and ask them to give themselves sufficient time to adjust to their new environment etc. What we find is that after these people who feel homesick have been here a few months they no longer think about “going back” anymore, but are quite content. It’s really just part of a moving syndrome that some people go through in coming down here – but it is not true that we prohibit people from leaving. On the contrary some people have left, and it wasn’t a matter of running away, they simply decided to leave and they left.
EXHIBIT B: Yolanda Crawford’s Affidavit
1, Jim Jones has in fact said that certain policies of the United States are evil – such as the Involvement with Chile, South Africa, the war in Vietnam etc. But he has never criticized the nation as such as being the “most evil” nation in the world. He has referred to the political and industrial leaders of the US as capitalist pigs on occasion.
2. He has not said he would rather have his people dead than living in the US and in fact he and the entire collective have weighed not only his return but the return of the entire organization to the US.
3. He has told people, in advance, that if they wish to go to Guyana, he will pay the cost of going over, but cannot afford the return fare. He made it clear that people who were considering coming to Guyana should plan to stay. We aren’t running a free travel and tour agency.
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We have discussed on occasion the possibility of returning to the US in the event the conditions in the US appeared to be right for some kind of radical social change that we would want to participate in. Jim never said the people that they would be coming to live in Guyana for a temporary period of time as some kind of absolute promise. He always told people to plan to come to stay.
4. Absolute denial of point four.
5. We did ask people to turn over their guns. We felt guns were extremely dangerous things to hang onto as people tended to hurt themselves and others with them. Secondly, we wanted to make money and one way to do it was to collect and sell guns to private persons not in our church, and that is what we did. We sold large quantities of guns. In fact, these guns were stored in Tim Stoen’s house. We never intended to use any of them for any purpose other than to sell. Most of the stuff we collected were Saturday Night Specials or old shotguns and hunting rifles. No way suitable for any kind of paramilitary operation – that whole charge is ridiculous. Denial of her seeing anyone packing any ammunition in crates. Admission: Jim Jones has said that if anyone tries to start anything we are ready to die for our cause. We are prepared to die for what we believe. We don’t believe anyone is worth their salt if they are not prepared to die for their principles.
6. Yes, in cases where news events depicted those things he said that. He pointed very specifically to news events, times and places when these events took place, and he does believe in keeping people informed. He reads the news, conveys the news, every day and it is very factual.
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When he conveys news he practically always tells the source. He says where he’s got it. The statement about Black people being destroyed in the US – you’re goddamn right he said it, and he based it on factual information. It certainly can be backed up by what has happened the Huey Newton and others.
7. Point Seven answered previously.
8. Yes he has said he would lay down his body for this cause, and he asked others to make that commitment – not to him – but to the cause of socialism. He has never asked anyone to commit themselves to kill anyone attempting to hurt him.
9. Jim Jones has never ordered anyone to break ties with families.
10. Jim Jones has never ordered anyone to report on anyone. However, it is as plain as the nose on one’s face that in a Communist collective it is necessary to have some internal safeguards, and so it is true that one has a duty to report behavior, or attitudes that are potentially harmful to the collective, so that such behavior etc. may be dealt with openly in our public meetings. There is no system of “spying” as implied. Anyone with a bitch has a right to express it in our public forum and often is given as much time as he or she wants to do it. Any “reporting” that is done is done to a person’s face in a public forum, for discussion. Behavior, talk etc. that seems anti-Marxist or revisionist is brought for open discussion. in fact one of the worst offenses in our community his gossiping behind someone’s back.
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11. Point eleven answered previously.
12. Yes, we did have her sign something to the effect that she had PPP sympathies. In fact, the whole idea of having people signed statements such as these as well as self-incriminating statements to act as a deterrent to people was an idea that Tim Stoen originated. It was hoped that such statements would have some effect in deterring people from harming this Communist organization, and not from harming Jim Jones personally.
13. Not true. Obviously Marshall Kilduff is very much alive. However, on one occasion we did make a statement over amateur radio that Mike Prokes was dead, as kind of a trial run. We knew our radio broadcasts were being monitored and we wanted to see if it would be picked up by any of the media. It wasn’t, but later we heard a rumor was flying around SF that Mike had “disappeared,” or was “no longer with PT.” Mike himself gave a very stirring eulogy over the radio at the time.
14. Where a relative is calling someone who is hostile to the church, it is done in the presence of an attorney. Jim was present at the call Yolanda’s mother made, and did give her some points to say. He did not tell her “everything” to say. Even if that had been his desire, it would have been impossible, as he could not hear the other half of the conversation. He never ordered anyone to tell their relatives to stop criticizing or they would not be allowed home.
15. First of all Jim Jones does not believe in God. However, he has used the technique of transference for those who are initially very religious often [word cut off] and for whom an immediate wrenching from religious belief to Marxist perspective would be impossible, or at least very shattering. So on occasion
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he has made the statement “I am God”, equating God with Good – and not with any anthropomorphic deity or creator. In fact, he has often qualified the statement by saying “If there is a God – for one who is decent and just etc.” then I am the only one you’ll ever see.” He has often said “we all are God” – remaining determiners of our own destiny, taken straight from the Marxist perspective that we must create our own society. He has made it extremely clear that he has never meant that statement to mean he is an anthropomorphic deity, the creator of the universe, or any other hocus-pocus. Rather what he is doing is taking what is best in humanity and equating it with deity, in order to form a bridge between the theistic and the atheistic perspectives. At this point in time, when we are living in a socialist country in a collective, such statements are no longer made because they are no longer necessary to be made. Yes, he has said religion is the opiate of the people. He has stated that he has used religion to reach the masses of working people with a political ideology which they would otherwise never sit still to listen to.
16. Flat denial. He has never said he would silence the factors by accusing them of being what they are.
AFFIDAVIT OF STEVE KATSARIS
Page 2: letters. She was asked to placate him and wrote him friendly letters for that reason alone. Maria is very involved in the church – and dedicated Marxist – she knew that because of her father’s possessive attitudes towards her, he would deeply resent any attachments the something other than himself – a cause or an organization etc.
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Page 2: phone calls received by unidentified callers. We do not know anything about them. We didn’t make them and do not know who did.
Sept. 14 radio-phone call:
She did asked that he delay his trip till Dec. Pauses and interruptions in conversation. Such pauses and interruptions are the essence of what phone patches are like: there are delays, often hard to hear, people talk on top of one another, repetition is often the case. She mentioned that Jim had been shot at in the jungle because that was the truth. Maria did not say that it was the policy of the Church not to permit visitors to the project. That is a lie. It’s true she said she would be in as Venezuela at a time of his intended visit. She did claim that Larry [Schacht], our doctor was her fiancé. She thought that if her father thought she was engaged to another man, it might discourage him from pursuing what she perceived as her father’s unnatural obsession and preoccupation with her. So she did in fact make up a fiancé who was not her fiancé. She was not being coached during the call, but there was a legal person present at the time of the call, because she asked that one be present.
It’s true that we receive Katsaris’ telegram and it’s true that Jim never replied.
Page 4: Paul Adams took tape to Dick McCoy and played it for him. She did not leave it with him. She did not make comments on the relationship beyond saying “You can see why Maria doesn’t want to visit with her father.”
Page 5: Maria is the financial secretary for the church. She did handle cash and checks, along with an entire committee and that is one area of responsibility. I cannot vouch for how much money she would have in her room at any given time.
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She still is the financial secretary. The “undated suicide note” is not true – never was required nor did she ever sign such a note. It is true that we were told by Liz Foreman that Steve Katsaris did engage in welfare fraud at his school, and we’d heard through various rumors that there were incidents of child molestation, homosexual behavior, and other kinds of sexual behavior that frequently occur in such institutions.
Steve Katsaris’ rhetoric on page 6, paragraph one on the “real” purposes of PT is just that – rhetoric. We do do humanitarian works, and social welfare activities, they are not a “cover-up” but a part of our ultimate goal – which is the establishment of socialism. We hope to participate in a small way to furthering socialism throughout the world. However we are not so delusional as to believe we can be the instrumental force to achieve this, as we are 1000 people in a world of over 2 billion.
It’s true that Maria was invited to dinner but she did not wish to go. She was tired from traveling and did not want to face him that night.
There was a meeting at the residence of Neil Churng – where Ambassador Mann was staying. The meeting took place on the balcony. Paul Adams, who happens to be the mistress of Laurence Mann was there. She didn’t come for the meeting – as a matter of fact she spent the night there. Carolyn Layton was there as well. She and Paula had coffee in the dining room while Maria met with her father, Dick McCoy, and Maria’s attorney (Edwin [Lionel] Luckhoo) on the balcony. Neither Paula nor Carolyn heard the conversation. It is a fact that at the time Steven Katsaris was extremely agitated that Maria had
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brought her attorney and questioned her about it. It was her wish to have Mr. Luckhoo there, because she wanted an impartial third-party observer, as a witness to what she said. At the time, Maria seemed very relaxed, and in fact, it was Mr. Katsaris who seemed under immense tension. In fact his eyes visibly twitched during the discussion. This was noted by everyone in the room as well as by Mrs. Layton, when she entered towards the end of the discussion. He did not seem relaxed, but extremely tense and uncomfortable. Maria was and is in excellent health at the time, which was obvious to everyone present at the time.
It is true that Maria has taken on the responsibility of being a mother to John [Victor Stoen]. She considers him her son, and John considers her his mother. There could absolutely be nothing more ridiculous than Maria “waivering.” She has traveled to and from Georgetown on many occasions alone, and in the company of Dick McCoy (with no other persons from our organization). She has access the funds and could take funds at any time and buy herself a plane ticket. At the time of this writing (May 29 [1978]) she is in Georgetown, and just this week met with Mr. McCoy – alone – during which meeting he offered her a plane ticket sent by her father. She refused it. She has taken other business trips for the organization, again – alone. She has had every opportunity to leave and go anywhere she wanted to go.