Q964 Transcript

(Editor’s note: This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

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Congregation: Sings: “Oh, how I love Jesus”

Male 1: (Sings “Oh, how I love Jesus”) (Tape edit) I could look around and see (unintelligble word) so many blessings. I can say very dear from the depths of my soul, I thank him all the days of my life. Sing it with us.

Male 1 and Congregation: (Sings)

Thank you, thank you, thank you
Thank you, thank you, thank you
Oh, I thank you all the days of my life
Oh, yes, I thank you, thank you, thank you
Thank you, thank you, thank you
Oh, I thank you all the days of my life
When I was sick, my father, he healed me
When I was sick, my father, he healed me
I was sick, my father, he healed me
Oh, yes, I thank you all the days of my life

Male 1: Everybody now clap your hands with them. (Tape edit) (Sings) Well, hallelujah children. Praise his wonderful name. Oh God, God, God. Hallelujah.

Congregation: Applause.

Male 1: I’d know him anywhere, any day and any time, ‘cause he is certainly well and alive today.

Voice in Crowd: Oh yes.

Male 1: Beautiful spirit.

Voices in Crowd: Thank you. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, thank you.

Organ plays

Congregation: Applause and calls

Tape edit

Congregation: Applause.

Male 1: They said in times of old, if you did not cry out, the rocks would cry out, children.

Congregation: Cheers.

Male 1: Today I say unto you, I shall cry out, for I know my savior is real. I have met him without a doubt in my heart. I have been able to cross over Jordan and see David’s fair land and recognize my savior. For that I’m grateful. I’m grateful to declare that I am a part of the Christ ministry that has saved my life, and saved so many standing there today.

Voice in Crowd: Hallelujah.

Male 1: I said, saved so many standing here today.

Congregation: Cheers.

Male 1and congregation: (Sing hymn) Jesus is the light, the light of the world

Tape edit

Male 1: Hallelujah (Shouts) Glory, glory, glory, glory, glory. Worship him. Worship him. Worship him. It’s true, oh, it’s true. Worship him. Worship him. Worship him. Worship his majesty. Hallelujah, hallelujah. Oh, praise him.

Organ plays

Congregation: Calls

Male 1: Glory, glory, praise the name of Jesus.

Tape edit

Male 1: Every hallelujah.

Congregation: Shouts.

Male 1: At this time, we’re going to have a couple selections by our choir. Both of these numbers were inspired by our pastor. First I think we’re going to sing, “I am grateful”–

Voice in Crowd: (Shouts) Yes.

Male 1: –and “Walking with you, Father.”

Congregation: Applause.

Pause

Music plays, choir sings

Congregation: Applause.

Tape edit

Jones: Now– now will each of you give a very fond embrace, or a salutary kiss of greeting to your neighbor, and let’s fill this atmosphere with warmth and love.

Organ plays

Jones: May we clasp our hands in warm and tender fashion. (Pause) How much I love you–

Voices in Crowd: Respond.

Jones: How much I love you. (Pause) Let’s begin our meditations.

Congregation: Cries and shouts of praise.

Organ plays

Jones: Thank you. Peace. I wish it were possible for me to move through this audience and give every– every one of you in a very warm embrace, because you are the most precious things, the most precious people to me, in all of this entire creation.

Congregation: Stirs.

Jones: Now as we meditate–

Voice in Crowd: Thank you, Father.

Jones: Our heads bowed, (unintelligible word)– We enter into a place of concentration. God is love. Love is a healing remedy.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: We do not repu– recommend ourselves as a panacea. But we recognize that all good things come down from the father of lights–

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: –in whom there is no shadow or variableness of turning. So God is in medical science, and we should utilize that to the nth degree, as this church even provides material, financial ways for each person to see that they have regular check-ups, where their faith does not reach the need. We believe in complete cooperation with all of the goodness and all of the scientific truth in the universe. Now as our hands are clasped, though we’re going to reach out to areas where man has seemed to have difficulty. (Pause) As we concentrate that the gifts of the Holy Spirit might function or what the secularist might speak of as the paranormal. Let us believe, let us believe. (Pause) The sister in the front row seems to be in such difficulty. It’s obvious to my natural eye because you just grimace with pain, sitting in the wheelchair. The doctor has relieved you in the second row. He’s relieved you from your work in the ho– in the hospital where you work and uh, you have a bad uh, spinal condition?

Female 1: Yes.

Jones: And your hip–

Female 1: Yes.

Jones: –is injured. You injured that hip also seven and a half years ago.

Female 1: Yes, I did.

Jones: Now if you have faith– if you have faith, this moment, love, the all-consuming power–

Congregation: Stirs.

Jones: – the all-consuming power. If you have faith– Someone help her with her purse. Next to her. Sister, you’ve been having trouble in your sha– in your chest. Mabel, next to her, just tou– you’ve been worrying about your chest, just this afternoon. Place your hand on your chest. (word of glossolia), as they said in the Scripture of old– Now, is the pressure gone? Is the pain gone?

Female 1: No pain here.

Jones: Thank you. Praise God.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Organ plays

Jones: Now– Now, Sister– Sister Dorothy, stand– stand on your feet. Make a bold venture of faith. You can. You can. E– Even in the unnatural environment where there are many in the television studio doing their work, trying to let people see a sane spiritual healing. (Commands) Step from your wheelchair–

Voice in Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: (Calls) Begin to step from your wheelchair. Try it. Just try it. Just try it. (Voice rises) We have nothing to lose, we have no face to lose, because we’ve said, we’re no panacea, but I have seen more healings here than I’ve ever seen anyplace.

Congregation: Cheers.

Voice in Crowd: Glory.

Jones: I love you. Jesus Christ loves you. Jehovah Jireh– All the goodness of all the world’s great religions, in the name and the mercy and the goodness of Jesus wherein I stand. Come forth, my dear. (Commands) Stand up. Take that step. Bless your heart, take that step–

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: Take that step–

Organ plays

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: Now, now, now– Now, now. Move forward. Move forward. Move forward. Move forward. Move forward.  Move forward, darling. You can do it. Move forward, move forward, child. Sweetheart, would you step up out of my way just a moment, so that I can just keep my love thought on her. Now move forward. Freely, freely, freely. Now begin to exercise the hip. Begin to exercise the joint. I love you. Christ loves you, the people love you.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Now, now, Sister, walk briskly. (Calls) Walk. Walk briskly. Walk. Walk–

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: (Cries) God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, (pause) God, God, God, God, (pause) God. Let’s rejoice and be glad. If– if– if you will– If you will– If you wish to, you can try, without your brace now, I think you’ll find there’s no more trouble

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: If you wish to s– If you wish to step– If you wish to step aside and take your brace and come back, I’ll think you’ll find there’s no more trouble.

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: Blessing, blessing. Getting to know you, getting to know more about you. You know that old song? We’ve not sung it for a long while. (Singing) Getting to know you, getting to know more about you.

Jones and Congregation: (Sings, “Getting to know you,” from Sound of Music)

(Tape edit)

Jones: I– I sense there’s someone in the atmosphere with the name of Templeton, that has great difficulty, crippling condition in your back. Cecil Templeton?

Cry from congregation

Jones: Why don’t you just move out in the aisles and try your back now. Way at the back. Try it, try it, try it. You’re a stranger to me, as these people have not told me anything about their lives. You have told me nothing about your life, is that correct?

Voice too soft

Jones: Now bend down. Bend down. Bend down. Bend down, sir. Touch your toes. Go down. Touch your toes. Go on down.

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: Up, up, up, up– Move each side– Move each side. Has the pain left?

Voice too soft

Jones: Has the pain left your back?

Templeton: It’s gone.

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: Thank you, bless you (Sings “Getting to know you”) (tape edit) (music continues) (Speaks) Bless you.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Bless you. Sister? Now try your hip and your back in every way. There’s the black– uh, there is the back support. The back brace? Is all pain gone?

Voice too soft

Jones: It’s all gone?

Organ plays

Congregation: Stirs.

Jones: Well, come– Go– Go running. Go running. Try it.

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: Good.

Music plays

Jones: (Calls) Blessed. Blessed. Blessed. Blessed.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: I’m so glad. I’m so glad Jesus, our Father lifted me.

Congregation and Jones: (Sings, “I’m so glad Jesus lifted me”).

Music plays

Jones: Just a moment, I think it’d be good if we sing– You know, once we were prejudiced. Once many of you would not’ve sit– would not have worshipped. You would not have been in the same place with people of other races.

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Jones: You had anti-Semitism, you had anti-black feelings. Some of the blacks had anti-Caucasian feelings. And the Baptists were separated from the Methodist. Now we have Pentecostalist, Buddhist, Muslim–

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Jones: Jewish, all–

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: –gathered in the fatherhood of God, and the brotherhood of man. Let’s sing.

Congregation and Jones: (Sings)

I’m so glad my Father set me free,
I’m so glad my Father set me free,
I’m so glad the Father set me free
Singing glory hallelujah,
Jesus lifted set me free.
Once I was so prejudiced,
But my savior set me free.
Once I was so prejudiced,
But the savior made me free.
Once I was so prejudiced,
But the savior lifted me
Singing glory, hallelujah
Father lifted me.

Jones: Hands clasped. (pause) Hands clasped.

Congregation: Stirs and murmurs.

Jones: Hands clasped. You may be standing or you may be seated, wherever you’re comfortable.

Voice in Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: You know, faith– faith isn’t some kind of weird practice.

Voice in Crowd: Talk about it.

Jones: We hear– We hear quite frequently modern scientist speaking of the efficacy, the authenticity of faith. Dr. [Helen] Flanders Dunbar, perhaps one of our most imminent psychiatrists said many years ago. She gave a contrast, I remember on one occasion, of treating two patients with advanced cancer, advanced malignancy. Carcinoma. She said one had faith, and I think one of them had both breasts removed and it meta– metastasized throughout the entire lymph system. The other one only had one breast removed. But the one with one breast had no faith, and the other had great faith. And she said the one with faith overwhelmed– was able to override old– all of the obstacles, all of the oppositions, and return to perfect health.

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Jones: We are fearfully and wonderfully made. We know our attitudes often create conditions. We’re not here to say what the causality is of these diseases. The fact is, the woman was in the wheelchair. And now she’s free.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Organ plays

Jones: And the fact that Mrs. White, that sits down here in our middle section, was five years in the wheelchair. There she is, five years, five long years, and now she’s free. Whatever put her in the wheelchair, she’s now free.

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Jones: Five long years, until I spoke the word of love, and Christ came to her through this ministry and healed her, and she’s not been in that wheelchair since.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Willa Mae Conley. Who’s Willa Mae Conley? I had a sensation about you. Did you once lose a loved one, I think, the name of James?

Conley: Yes, that’s my brother.

Jones: Just fourteen years of age, and someone– he was reading something, and someone asked him for what he had, and he ref– he didn’t want to give it–

Conley: Yes, he did.

Jones: –and that– that– that person shot him to death.

Conley: (cries out) Yes, he did.

Congregation: Stirs.

Conley: (cries out) Yes, he did.

Jones: I’m say– I’m saying this to give you faith–

Conley: Yes.

Jones: –so that you can mount up because you’ve been feeling pain here in the chest.

Conley: Yes.

Jones: And in the back?

Conley: Yes.

Jones: And you injured your foot some time ago–

Conley: Yes, I did.

Jones: –and you’ve been having constant pain in it, where you had to move around with a chair–

Conley: Yes, I did.

Jones: I’ll give you little things. I did not know you, and you’ve told me or no one else the things I just mentioned. Is that true?

Conley: No, you sure haven’t.

Jones: Now I’m saying through this paranormal faculty that some place I see a– a– a clock in your home with a yellow center.

Conley: Yes.

Jones: A clock with a yellow center.

Conley: Yes.

Jones: And a telephone with a blue– no, a red and white doily.

Conley: Yes, in the living room.

Jones: And I’ve never been in your home.

Conley: Yes.

Jones: Now where’s your pain?

Voice in Crowd: Laughter.

Congregation: Stirs.

Conley: (unintelligible)

Jones: Now (Calls out) It’s gone. (Quietens) Peace. Sweet, sweet.

Jones and congregation: (Sing, “I’m so glad Father lifted me”)

Jones: Hands clasped. Hands clasped. Hands clasped. And you may remain in the position that’s most comfortable for you.

Congregation: Stirs, scattered applause.

Jones: There’s someone here that is concerned– concerned about a stroke. Your father died of a stroke at 57 after two years of suffering. (Pause) After two years of suffering. (Pause) Edie? Fingers– Are your fingers numb? In your right hand–

Voice too soft

Jones: –and –and –and having enormous headaches in your head.

Edie: (Softly) Yes, that’s right. And my neck.

Jones: Reach your hands out– Reach your hand out to me.

Voice in Crowd: Hallelujah. Thank God. Thank God.

Jones: Reach the fingers out that are bothering you. (Pause) Now is the pain gone?

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones and congregation: (Sing, “Sweet Holy Spirit”).

Piano plays

Jones: Hands again, if you would, clasped.

Voice in Crowd: Hallelujah, amen, my God.

Jones: Because in the apostles’ day, in the times of the great Jewish messenger, Paul, he spoke of the laying on of hands. Now they’re speaking in scientific circles of laying on hands on plants that are withering and dying, and they’re revived. I think The Wall Street Journal mentioned the tremendous power of love to reach a plant that’s dying. Now, my friends, my family, if a plant that’s dying can be reached by love, we thinking creatures should be able to be reached by love.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Long pause

Jones: Sister (pause) Ingram, you’re concerned about the losing– the losing of your sight.

Ingram: (too soft)

Jones: You’re not able to see me clearly.

Ingram: (too soft)

Jones: Things just a blur to you? You have to stumble around lately through crowds, and are not able to see even people’s faces close up to you clearly.

Ingram: (Emotional) That’s true.

Jones: You’ve told me nothing about your condition. Is that correct?

Ingram: No, I haven’t.

Baby crying

Jones: Give that little sweetheart a little bit of love. (Pause) Thank you, baby.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Peace. (Pause) Now, (Pause) take your glasses off. Let’s just dare in our faith. We’ve seen Sister Brown here who was blind, totally healed.

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Jones: We saw one of our sisters’ blind from her childhood. It could be hysterical blindness, whatever. We’re not concerned. She was blind and could not see.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Now, (pause) look at my face. Look at me. I’m going to hold up something. (Pause) What do you think I have in my hand?

Ingram: (too soft)

Jones: I love you. Christ loves you.

Ingram: A book?

Jones: It’s a book. That’s it, it’s a book.

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Jones: Now look a little clearly. Look more clearly. What kind of a book?

Ingram: A Bible.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Organ plays

Jones: I’m going to hold up some fingers. You concentrate hard. Now you couldn’t see those fingers if they were right next to you. You couldn’t’ve been able to see those fingers with your glasses.

Ingram: No, I couldn’t.

Jones: Now look. I love you, the people love you–

Voices in Crowd: Yes, yes.

Jones: And most importantly, Christ loves you.

Voices in Crowd: Yes.

Jones: What do you see? (Pause) How many fingers?

Ingram: Three.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Ingram: One.

Jones: What?

Ingram: One finger.

Jones: One finger.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: You don’t even need your glasses, child.

Music plays

Jones: Beautiful. Let’s all– Let’s all be thankful as she cries back there. Let’s try and rejoice with her. (Pause) If you couldn’t see–

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Everyone again now in this atmosphere, in this atmosphere– Hannah Wright, you’re afflicted and crippled on your left side with arthritis. Hannah Wright. Who is this? Move your hand, move it now. Move it. Move it. Move it up– up and down, up and down, all the way, all the way. Now move your arm up. Completely up. Up, up, up, up. Now bend. Is the pain gone?

Wright: Yeah.

Jones: Is the pain– Let’s rejoice with her.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Music plays

Jones: Spirit! Again, I don’t know you, and you’ve told me nothing about your life. Is that correct?

Wright: No.

Jones: That’s wonderful. Let’s rejoice. Now, why don’t you try your arthritis? Everyone, try it, try it, try to work your joints. Your joints. Free them. Free them.

Voices in Crowd: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jones: Anna? Try your right shoulder. Try your right shoulder. McGowan? Put your shoulder up. Has it gone? Has it gone? All gone now? Every bit of the pain gone? Blessed, all through the building. Now, how many feel free of their arthritic pain?

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Now– now I want– Naturally some of you, you didn’t all have arthritis. How many now got free of arthritis? How many now got free of it? Well, let’s rejoice in that.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Let’s rejoice in that. Thank you, thank you. Wonderful.

Jones and congregation: (Sing, “I never shall forget what he’s done for me”).

Music plays

Jones: Thank you, thank you. You may be seated.

Piano plays

Jones: Our healing– Our healing services will go on throughout the day, but I think enough has been done now to give the authenticity to sane spiritual healing, and I think that it might be in order for questions to come from people who are here from this fine film production agency or from the floor. If you uh, have any quick questions you’d like to ask, so that people could get an idea of our– our thoughts. Anyone have any questions they’d like to engender, you’ll have to put up your hand, I don’t uh– the lights make it a little (unintelligible word)– Yes?

Voice too soft

Jones: What?

Voice too soft, question about “the worst problem”

Jones: The worst problem. I don’t want to generalize, but too many problems. We have problems of ecology. We have problems of violence, we have deep-seated racism, we have an apathy in the land that’s appalling. For instance, let’s take this situation around Watergate, and we want to recognize that a person is always presumed innocent until proven guilty, so we’re not in any way casting any aspersions on the president, but seventy percent of the people said that they thought, in a Gallup poll, I believe, that the president was guilty of being involved in this scandalous affair. But I think only seventeen percent said that it made any real difference. They wanted to keep him as their president. Now, indeed if Mr. [Richard] Nixon has served the country well, then he should be kept as president, and uh, he has achieved great things in foreign relations, and that’s one thing. But if seventy percent of the people polled think that he is guilty of a crime against the people, and yet fifteen or seventeen percent say it doesn’t matter, that’s dangerous. I would say– I would say that there’re too many problems, the loss of respect for life, sterilization of little children in Alabama, because of the color of their skin, and we had a lady who visited us a week ago here, and was speaking to one at the door, and she was a member of a prominent church, a pastor’s wife, and she said I think that the poor should be made to control how many children they bring into the earth. You remember?

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Jones: So I– I– I think that is horribly dangerous. (Voice rises) That an agency of the federal government can allow 400 or 500 people, because of the color of their skin, have syphilis and go on for years and be untreated.

Congregation: Stirs.

Jones: And let many of them die and develop all kinds of debilitating diseases, brain damage, and all sorts of gross maladies, and (stumbles over words) experiment with humans like they were guinea pigs. And today there’s much– I understand there’s even been fetal experimentation, even in– Not only penal institutions, but we’re– Senator [Edward] Kennedy brought out something not too long ago about uh, experimentation being done with the exceptional children, polarized towards the retardated– uh, the retarded level. Being experimented because they happen to not be like other people, in an institution where parents had put them to be protected. The kind of insensitivity I hear today– I heard some leading scientist say, we have to have euthanasia. Oh no, oh no. Who’s going to decide who and when a person’s going to die? We must never allow that, because this is the kind of thing that ushers in the terror of a Hitler’s Germany. We must not allow these kinds of things to enter into our consciousness–

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Peace. Peace. I think that the worst problem– It all boils down to the love of money is the root of all evil, and we have a great deal of that today. We put priorities of space so we can show our machismo compared to other nations, rather than do something about the poverty that is reeking at our very doors in every city. The centralization of wealth, when people even of the lower middle class cannot even afford proper medical treatment.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Voice in Crowd: Amen.

Jones: We read– I think in one of the leading magazines, Times or Newsweek, in the last few days, about doctors– a doctor team that had a deeper conscience that most, and they went into just an area– Just picked it random, an area of New York, and a better, more privileged area. And they found people not poor black, but average white senior citizens dying or dead in their chair from malnutrition.

Congregation: Murmurs.

Jones: Oh! There’re many things in our society that need to be corrected, and I think the first thing, it goes back to the ancient Judeo-Christian principle. There’s a love of money in this land, a love of materialism that will– uh, it alienates against us everyone. We’ll even let our children be sacrificed. I read an article this morning, that psychiatrist said they didn’t know what was going to happen to the boys in American homes, if the father wasn’t in the home more. And yet the almighty dollar and the pressure of the high cost of living causes dad to be absent nearly 95 percent of the time. You ask me a great question, my brother. I say the household of America is in danger. It’s a gifted people. If the media would spend more time showing what brotherhood can achieve, and would show uh– feature some of the wonderful things that are being done in society, groups that are getting together out of every walk and lifestyle, but– instead of parading violence and uh, sensationalism, and oftentimes just exposé stories that don’t have a ground of evidence in them. That’s why we must be very careful not to indict people just because they have been uh, supposedly convicted uh, in the media or charged with things. I know a man that committed suicide because the press charged him with a crime that he did not commit and it was later proven that he didn’t. We ought to get busy trying to show some of the good features of America. Now America has something in its substratum that’s very good. Deep down in the core of the American psyche is a lot of value. For instance, in Los Angeles, where only a minority of the people are black, they elected a black mayor [Tom Bradley].

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: But we have pretty good press here. Why don’t we encourage the press and encourage it by your getting involved? You should get involved as citizens, and write to protest evil and promote good, so that the press will feel that the people want to hear something about goodness and love and– and the things that’re being done to help people in the land. I don’t know whether I answered your question or not.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (Voice calms) Yes, young lady. (pause) Uh– Wait until the microphone, please.

Female2: I was wondering, how you uh, view the people– the types of people that comprise this work, and how you think they view you or see you in the church and the community.

Jones: How do I view the people that comprise this work? Well, I view them as human beings from a cross-section of every kind of lifestyle, and people uh, view me in a myriad of ways. Some people see me as a representative of the I Am, as Jehovah Jireh. Some people see great deal of God in my body.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: They see Christ in me, a hope of glory.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Peace. Peace. Peace. And it does fabulous things. I look down, and I see one of our sisters here who’s 97 years young, and she’s now active in uh, one of our self-managing, very innovating geriatric homes. She cooks, but she was an invalid on her back when she came, and now she cooks because volitionally she wants to and she’s very able. Stand up, Sister Ever [Rejoicing]! Ninety-seven years young and uh, she uh, saw– She said, I remember her saying she saw me to be the hundredfold of God. She saw God in me, and if you look at her, she’s done pretty good, because what she sees, she’s reproduced in herself, because very few people could cook as good as she does. She cooks wonderful lemon pies.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: And she’s 97 years, and you never ate such lemon pies as she cooks. Thank you, Sister Ever. And uh, the lady behind her also saw me in that consciousness, who owns a sana– a rest home. She was crippled with arthritis and had to spend out about $13 dollars a week or so, and the moment she came to me, that all stopped. Now I’m speaking on one level.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Then some see me as a humanitarian. There are agnostics here, who just see me as humanitarian. They’re here because we’ve championed the civil liberties movement throughout the entire history of our church.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Peace. (Pause) Some came to me because I adopted many children of all races and ethnic backgrounds, and they have exemplified that. And believe me, we don’t put any kind of restraint on people. We believe by their fruits shall you know them. Jesus said, ye shall know a tree by the fruit it bears. Now I have a whole group of Muhammadans here. In this church. Our church constitutes over 10,000 active members, and those Muhammadans, they love their brothers, they love their sisters. And the– the Scripture says, by this shall all men know that you are my disciples, because you have love one for another, and said whosoever loveth is born of God and knows God. So if those Muhammadans fill all that, and they do beautifully, they see Allah in me, and they seem to be reproducing the God of Allah, love, in their own lives. I have a host of Jewish people, Jewish doctors, Jewish professor sitting down there who lost 60 of his relatives in Hitler’s Germany, and he was touched about our concern for civil liberties [Richard Tropp]. Later he received uh, great healing in his body, but that’s not why he’s here. He’s not here because I am a son of God, or even a minister. He’s here because I believe in freedom for all people.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Peace. Peace. Peace. And I see another Jewish brother who is in charge of a very exceptional home for children, and again he received healing of a stomach condition, but he did not come for healing. He came, because we had done a great work for peace and that we believe in nonviolence and that we oppose the rise of totalitarianism. Whatever its name, be it fascism or communism, we are not interested in any kind of oppressive systems. We want our liberty, or we want death.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Peace. Peace. (Pause) Peace. Peace. Peace. So people come to me for various reasons. I have reached people in my classroom where I’m a school teacher. I served as a school teacher for many years. I reached one of my members as a foreman of the grand jury. I reached one person because of the treatment that I gave in a riot, because I stood up for those that needed peace and needed justice. I received one lady here because I took in her stray cats. She had 30 and she came to me and found that I had 50, and I still took her extra cats. You see, I– we– uh, I’ve got people who see me on every kind of level, and whosoever loveth– if people are kind and gentle and they practice the great ethics of the Judeo-Christian tradition or the ethics of love general, they’re welcome in here. These doors are open to everyone that loves.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: And I should say– I should say these doors are welcome to everyone who are trying to love, because most of us are just getting to know a little bit about love.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: And how do I see my people? I see my people as my brothers and my sisters. I see them as a people who are going to live in peace, in quiet resting places. I see my people– I have a visualization– And I’m often told by even people in psychological backgrounds, that the things you visualize, you’re quite likely to materialize, so I see health in my people. I see joy in my people. I see my people all as one. We have doctors in this room, we have lawyers, we have an assistant district attorney [Tim Stoen], we have a person that owns a hospital. We’ve got farm laborers. We’ve got people who work the great fields, like this sister who was healed of a terminal disease, sitting right down here, given up to die, this sister. One of my best members. And in this church, there’s no class, creed, racial consciousness. (Cries out) We are one.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Peace. Peace. Peace. Is there another question? Is there another question? Yes? (Pause)

Female3: I’d like to know–

Jones: Excuse me for drinking so much water. If you’ll lift your hand, the ushers are instructed to have water for you, because I never feel free to take water. These lamps are extremely warm (chuckles) so if you want water, uh, uh– ushers, uh, I think today, because of the television, they didn’t bring the water, but let’s be at home. We always have water in our aisles, so let’s go and get the water so that people can drink freely. Um-hmm [Yes]. Yes, dear?

Female3: I’d like to know, what do you see as being the greatest achievement in your healing and uh, miracle ministry?

Jones: The greatest achievement? (Pause) That healings turn people on to social action.

Congregation: Sustained applause.

Jones: Peace. That isn’t to minimize these healing as– as ends in themselves, but we uh, we attempt– we’re even hoping to be able to establish a medical clinic. Some of the doctors who are attending, we are trying to encourage them to establish clinics for the very impoverished. We do not see ourselves as a panacea. A man who thinks that he has– or a woman that thinks that they have all of the answers is a fool. And we feel that we must enter this spiritual healing realm, because many fanatics are in it who want money for Cadillacs, which I don’t own, or new suits which I don’t own. Uh– Strangely enough, this suit that I have on today doesn’t belong to me. It’s borrowed because they wanted me to look nice before TV.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Peace. Peace. As you know, you’ve never seen me in a suit customarily, because we just tend to be common folk here, and uh, we are certainly not minimizing healing, but it’s a murky field. Many people who are in the spiritual healing ministry uh, cause me great consternation, because of their presumptuousness to tell people, don’t go to doctors, or to say, if you don’t have faith to get healed, you are sinning. That’s ridiculous. This is a really beautiful field, and it’s somewhat of an unknown variable, and that to such a degree that people should not be so presumptuous as to say, how one gets healed or why people don’t get healed. This is very arrogant and uh, for– and that reason I don’t like being in the field, but I found out that I can practice spiritual healing through this Christ love greater than anyone I’ve seen lately. And I– I want to be able to do it because I will point people, as I do you, to get your regular six-month medical check-ups. Don’t I? When you get healed, I tell you to go right to the doctor and get it confirmed.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And I feel if the ecumenical church– We belong to a very orthodox denomination of a million point uh– a million and a half members approximately, that usually do not practice spiritual healing, and I’m ordained in that denomination. But I feel if the established churches, the traditional faiths, be they Jewish or Christian or non-Christian, if they don’t enter into the healing phase, that it’s going to be turned over to the radical fanatics who will just pocket wealth and drive around in fine cars and luxurious living, and the people will be deprived, not only of judgment, but of their money serving them. Now in this church, what have we done in a short time? We have four senior citizen homes that are the most innovating, the most beautiful you want to see. Now my home is stone block, and there’s not a piece of new furniture in it, but our senior citizen homes, they’re elegant. We have two convalescent center– centers where people can come, though we don’t have in all of our membership one person that’s in the convalescent center, because none of our people are on the flat of their back yet.

Congregation: Applause.

Voice in Crowd: Thank you for that.
Jones: And that’s beautiful. They keep moving. And then we have a children’s home. Forty acres of that. And we have 109 students under scholarship. Two of our sons just a few days ago, we sent them to medical school, and their minds were destroyed by drugs until they came to us. Both of minority backgrounds, one a Jewish young man [Larry Schacht], and uh, both of them from bad– uh, bleak circumstances, and now they’re making straight honor grades, and they’re going to come out of medical school, they said in their last letter which I read here Thursday night, to set up a free clinic to serve the people that really have need. That’s wonderful.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: We have– we have our dormitories for this education. As I said, 109 students under partial or complete scholarship that our church supports, instead of supporting us in a fine car out there – I don’t own a car personally – but we have fine buses to get us on a vacation. We’re going to go to Washington D.C. in a few days and see our congressmen. We’re going to– going to take a tour of the nation. When I take a vacation, all of our people take a vacation.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: We have a community center with an indoor swimming pool. We have so many things that I could not mention. Now this is the way to see healing utilized for the glory of God and the glory of man. I could mention a lot of individual healings, Sister Cunningham that was paralyzed that’s in the choir and now healed. It’s beautiful to see this, as I said, the ones that are in the wheelchairs that have now come out, some of them given up, one of a terminal malignancy, a– a Jewish doctor, a Jewish lawyer here, and the wife of the district attorney, she had a disease that medical scientist purportedly could not reach, but now she’s completely healed. All of these healings in themselves are wonderful, and we’re grateful for them, but if they do not lead to greater action and deeper experience in s– contribution to society, I think they would be somewhat in vain. Thank you. I think I’ve belabored that too long. And I think that’s perhaps enough questions. Is there anything that the people from the film company would like to ask? (Pause) That’s a nice sign you give us. Peace. That’s a universal sign, and everybody wants that, don’t they. Peace.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: I think that there– there’re now going to be some testimonies given uh, publicly, were they? Uh– I see a little agenda that you have now written up here. So if you want some testimonies, whatever you wish to do, let us be happy in the presence of God, and God is in each of us. Christ is in each of us, the hope of glory. So let’s enjoy that presence. Stand and let’s sing another song, “Brotherhood is our religion.”

Voice in Crowd: Amen.

Organ plays, congregation sings

Jones: This is a song that I composed and I like it. (Sings) Brotherhood is our religion, for democracy we stand/ We love everybody, we feed every hand/ It’s based on the Constitution and it certainly is God’s command/ For these are the rights we adore. (Calls out) What are they now? They are liberty, fraternity, equality for all. These are the rights we stand for. (Speaks) Peace. Now, whoever wants to testify. (Pause) Yes, they ask those that are coming to testify to wait before you speak. Well, how– how are they going– You give them a signal or something?

Voice in congregation: Too soft.

Jones: Then we wish to go on with our service if we might. We have business matters to take care of. Are they– are you going to have some discussion outside uh, with some of you? Fine. Fine. Have I given you enough of a demonstration of spiritual healing? All right, fine. (Pause) You’re the only group I’ve ever allowed this, because I– I’ve seen some people, but they wanted to focus in on our people when they were enjoying themselves, and I’ve watched you, you’re very responsible people, and we appreciate that. Because I feel religion and uh, ideas, the forum of ideas is one’s God-given right or an inherent right, if one doesn’t choose to believe in God. And I don’t think that uh– I never let an invasion of a religious assembly take place, so you’re the first group that’s ever been allowed to do so. One group came once, they had their cameras all set up and they focused in on a little black lady that didn’t happen to be dressed just as well as another, and she was dancing, and I said, get your cameras moving, and they moved in five minutes.

Voice in Crowd: Laughter.

Congregation: Applause.

Female4: When I first heard of Peoples Temple, I was told about a man who cares for all people, and having been a school teacher for about ten years and just completely divorcing myself from anything religious for over fifteen years, I was reluctant to go, but I did come. And I was amazed at what I saw here. Pastor Jones called me out and told me that my life was in great danger. He gave me specific things that I might do to save myself from destruction, and I did them, skeptically, but I did them. And I thank God that I did them, because when I was attacked by a very drugged maniac, who jumped into my car quite uh– as a shock to me. I was able to think back and remember the things that Pastor Jones had told me. And instantly, when I told him these things and did what he said for me to do, he ran away.

Congregation: Applause.

Female4: He ran away from me. I’m so grateful. (Pause) I’m so grateful– I’ll just– I’m just so grateful. I’ll never leave this place.

Congregation: Applause.

Eugene Chaikin: When I first came here to Pastor Jim Jones, I had an arthritic back. It was so bad that my life was a series of experiences of pain. Every day– It seemed to me to be in agony just to get through my day’s work. And I came to church one day, and Pastor Jim called me out, and he told me the name and address of a man who I’d known long ago, I couldn’t even hardly remember, somebody who was a witness in a lawsuit, and he told me many, many other things about my life. He told me things that no human being in an ordinary state of consciousness could possibly know.

Congregation: Stirs.

Chaikin: And even though I was a lawyer, and even though I’m a skeptic, I had to be convinced, because what’s real is real, and what I could see I could see. And then he told me about my back. And he told me about all the treatments I’d had and how they hadn’t worked, and then he reached out his hand, and he said– he said– he said, in the name of Christ, you’re healed, and my pain was gone, and now a year and half later, (voice cracking) it’s still gone, and I praise God for that.

Congregation: Applause.

Female5: When I found Peoples Temple, I was doing social work, and I was pretty desperate and very frustrated because of my inability to affect any real kind of change in a world that was so filled with desperate and lonely people and filled with so much injustice. My father was an ordained minister and a professor at a seminary, and despite this fact, I had long ago left the organized church, because I didn’t see it really facing the critical issues of our time. But when I found Jim Jones, when I found the community that he’s built, I found one who has effected so much change, he’s– he’s succeeded in uniting people of all racial, social, and economic backgrounds into a strong community of Christian believers.

Congregation: Applause.

Female5: People who are really dedicated to living out the Christian ethics that they’ve been taught so long. And I’ve been just amazed by the profound miracles that I’ve seen here, because this was foreign to my own religious background. I’ll never forget Sister Ferrell of Stockton who suffered such a painful back injury that the doctors had to put her in 47-pound traction around her neck. She was unable to use her arms or her legs. She had to take up to eight codeine pills a day, so painful was– was her back injury. (Calls out) But when Jim Jones sent out the Spirit of God to her and divine compassion, she was instantly healed–

Congregation: Applause.

Female5: –instantly. (moderates) I thank God for that. Today she does not need medical treatments. She takes no medicine, and she has complete usage of her arms and her legs. I thank God for the messenger that we have in Pastor Jones today.

Congregation: Applause.

Pause

Male2: You know, only a few years ago, living in Los Angeles, I had a very good paying administrative job, and I was indulging myself only. Just me. We had a home, a new car, we traveled a lot, all the conveniences, (pause) ate lots of steaks, and friends. And I wondered, I looked around and I saw– (pause)

Congregation: Applause.

Male2: I saw a distrustful society. I saw poor people and war and brothers fighting against brothers, and then one day I heard Jim Jones speak. Now the truth has a twang to it.

Voices in Crowd: Yes.

Male2: It makes you wonder what you can do that’s meaningful. And his love and understanding brought me here to this family.

Congregation: Applause.

Male2: And we all live– we all live in peace with each other. There is no conflict among us.

Voice in Crowd: Hallelujah. Hallelujah.

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Congregation: Applause.

Male2: And every day, miracles are wrought, and each service, each day, through the power of love.

Voice in Crowd: Yes, amen, hallelujah.

Male2: I’ve seen the blind made to see, the deaf made to hear, cripples set aside their– their crutches and walk.

Congregation: Applause.

Male2: The needy are clothed here, the hungry are fed. (Pause) Life is so beautiful here.

Voice in Crowd: Yes.

Congregation: Applause.

Male2: Peter 5:4 says, when the chief shepherd appears, you will be crowned with glory that fadeth not away.

Voice in Crowd: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, hallelujah.

Male2: Today here now, in our little family – in our large family in fact – we know where the chief shepherd is.

Congregation: Applause.

Male2: And his good works are manifested by Peoples Temple and Jim Jones. Praise him, Praise God. Thank you. I’m so grateful.

Congregation: Applause.

Jeanette Kerns: My name is Jeanette Kerns, and I’m being supported by this church here to attend college, and before I came to this beautiful Christ work here, I was on drugs. I was taking LSD, marijuana, every type of– uh, every type of dope you can imagine. And plus I was– I– I had epilepsy. I had terrible seizures, continuous, and I was having to take medication, plus I was just doing all sorts of terrible things to myself. And I was 3,000 miles away in Florida, and Pastor Jim Jones called my mother [Ellen (Penny) Kerns Dupont] out, who had terminal cancer. He healed her of terminal cancer, but also he told her of me who was in Florida 3000 miles away, and told her of my condition. And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a person who has these terrible seizures. I would bite my tongue. Sometimes I would have to go to the hospital, and this can be proven by Letterman General Hospital, which I spent over a month in, here in San Francisco before I went to Florida. And he called her out and told her of my condition and healed me. (emotionally) And in Florida, all of a sudden, I didn’t have any seizures anymore. I couldn’t understand it.

Voice in Crowd: Laughter.

Congregation: Applause.

Kerns: It was something else. Nothing. I’m just– I’m really grateful, ‘cause that Christ spirit that was working through our Pastor Jim Jones healed me, and I never knew anything. I wasn’t going to church and I didn’t believe in anything, just my dope, but I was (small laugh) experiencing. And I’m really grateful, because without this church, without our Pastor Jim Jones to teach me the right way, I would not be in college right now. I wouldn’t be having a– a wonderful– leading a life like I am, because of Pastor Jim Jones. And how many of you in here have been healed of arthritis, cancer? How many of you in here?

Voices in Crowd: Yes.

Kerns: That’s right, so many of you. We all– I’m grateful, and I know everyone else is here. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Congregation: Applause.

Female6: When I first came to the church, I was an atheist. I uh, had worked in and working in the field of law enforcement, and I had to be convinced. I had to have the facts and uh, when I attended the healing services and saw these beautiful miracles that happened undoubtedly at every service, my idea of God and how he works changed. I myself was healed of a kidney problem that I’d had since I was a child, and my mother had taken me to so many specialists that I was not only losing faith in medical science, but I was resigning myself to always having this condition with me. And it was at the very first healing service that I attended that Pastor Jones called me out personally. And he told me not only things of my life, but he also told me thoughts of my mind, things I hadn’t even verbalized to anyone. And he spoke the word of healing of God and sent relief to my body, and instantly I felt a warmth across my back, and I’ve never been bothered with that kidney problem since. And I thank you, thank you, God.

Congregation: Applause.

Female6: But I think– I think something equally important with these beautiful healings is the vast human service ministry of Peoples Temple. Through Jim’s example of deep love and concern for all people, our church has set up numerous programs and facilities to help other people in all areas of need. Pastor Jones exhibits such a great God-giving force, and he never uses it for his own advantage. He always uses it for good.

Voice in Crowd: That’s true.

Female6: As long as I’ve been here–

Congregation: Applause.

Female6: –four years I’ve been here, I have never seen him (deliberate tone) do one selfish act. He never even eats until he knows all his people have been fed.

Congregation: Applause.

Female6: He makes sure that we all have arrived home from each church service. He never takes one moment to think of himself. His constant concern is for others.

Voices in Crowd: Amen.

Female6: And now he’s causing thousands of people to take up and follow his Christ-like lead and go on to make this a better world. I’m so grateful to be a part of this church and (emphatic) I thank God for Jim Jones.

Congregation: Applause.

Male3: I– I would just like to testify to something incredible that happened in my life. I was driving along a four-lane highway at 65 miles an hour, and all of a sudden, my steering wheel started to jump around in my hand and began to boggle, and I began to lose control of my car, and I was traveling at a very, very fast rate of speed, 65 miles an hour. As I lost control, the tire blew out. And instantly, I thought of the Christ force of our Pastor Jim Jones, and a way was made. (Cries out) Thank you Jesus. A way was made!

Congregation: Applause.

Male3: (excited) Through all, there– there was a great deal of traffic and instantly, uh, just thinking on Christ and our pastor, a way was made, and I was able to safely go to– all the way over to the right to the shoulder of the road, where there was safety. Upon– When I took the car in to the garage, the garage man shook his head, and he just didn’t understand how a tire whose wall was entirely blown out – this was a radial tire – the wall of it was entirely blown out. He said, he didn’t understand how all of the traffic that I wa– was in, how dozens of cars weren’t messed up in a terrible tragedy. And I’m grateful to be here, I’m grateful to be alive in this ministry that has done so much for me. (Calls out) Thank you.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: I see that there is something here that’s– a request that I could not accommodate, and that would be to give out food uh, someone has uh, recommended this. We would never be able to distribute food in front of a TV. And I’m– It isn’t the te– television people that’ve asked this, I’m sure. This must be an idea of someone here. We would not do that. The food that’s here is for distribution, but we do not do that publicly. Some of this food is now uh, directed towards an Indian reservation uh, that has been in dire need, and we give this kind of help constantly. We have free legal services, we have a– a ministry, uh, you– you name it, we have it, clothing, commissary, food commissary–

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: –animal shelter. I suspect the most extensive animal shelter in Northern California at least it’s been reported to be. And we give the most exemplary kind of care, according to many veterinarians. We have a– I think a little fellow here I thought it might be of– of interest to you that I saved from being in an unnecessary experiment. His name is Mr. Muggs.

Mr. Muggs: (vocalizes)

Jones: Where is he? Where is Mr. Muggs?

Mr. Muggs: (vocalizes)

Jones: Come on and see me, Muggs.

Mr. Muggs: (vocalizes)

Jones: He’s a part of our congregation. He claps and he worships.

Congregation: Applause.

Mr. Muggs: (vocalizes)

Jones: He talks to me. We have our own little language. He’s so sensitive, and I think we need to be concerned about the treatment of animals, because you know, it’s so easy, we step from the treatment– the adverse treatment of animals.

Mr. Muggs: (vocalizes)

Long pause

Jones: She’s been so helpful to us in raising him. Want to say something to the public?

Mr. Muggs: (vocalizes)

Jones: He says he’s not used to television. All right. All right. All right. He says I’m not used to– All right.

Mr. Muggs: (vocalizes)

Congregation: Stirs.

Long pause

Thump of microphone

Jones: And in each service, we–

Mr. Muggs: (vocalizes)

Jones: Right. They’re not– I think he’s a little conscious of these maybe being weapons. Uh, interestingly enough, if anyone moves in my direction, he automatically attacks, unless I stop him. I– I– we– (Laughs) I’ve got– If people won’t stand by me, the chimpanzees will.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: It’s wonderful. In each service– In each service we also – every service – distribute animals, cats, dogs, the unwanted. We uh– You know, the mixed people. That’s what I am. Mixed with everything under the sun. So the little– the little alley ca– cats and the alley dogs. I’m an alley human, and I feel very much for these animals. In every service we give them out, distribute them, and before we do, we have them properly inoculated from the ordinary diseases– against the ordinary diseases, and we see that they’re neutered. And I could not tell you the thousands of animals that we reach ever year. So– and then we’ve taken in a host of beautiful children, which I do not wish to single out, of every ethnic background. We not only support our own denominational welfare services, but we supported Jewish welfare serves, the welfare services of many other groups. And then we have uh, perhaps 80 children that had uh, the worst kind of background you can imagine environmentally, and now they are children uh, in our jurisdiction. They have guardianship, they’re in uh, homes– adopted, been given homes in the past few months. About 80, I think. So we’re very thrilled that we– we have a uh, practical religion and that’s what we need more of. Practical.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (microphone thumps,) I think now if uh– if you feel that you have what you need, you may retire to go. Where are you going to go for the other testimonies and interviews? You said they wish to interview other people, the staff? All right. All right, if you would– so that we can conduct– go on with the service then. (pause) We’ve been very thrilled having you. Everyone give them a good hand.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Thank you, thank you, thank you. (Pause) Thank you, thank you very much. (long pause) I bel– (tape edit) for you, and I thi– understand that there are some guests with you. If you’ll step over, they’ll get ready to make uh, some refreshments available to you. You’ve been very patient to sit– we’ve got a long and enduring meeting to take place. Oh, not so much longer. (music in background) Uh, where are they going to– where is it going to take place? Claire, will you help here get them to the place where they– Turn the lights on.

(music rises)

Jones: Give your neighbor a good kiss.

Woman singing: I believe–

Jones: (singing) while I have the chance, I may not have this chance anymore. Oh, I’m going–

Tape Ends

Originally posted on February 5th, 2018.

Last modified on November 25th, 2019.
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